Welcome, new citizen!

11 September, 2008

This is the sort of foriegner we need more of, objectively pro-badger.

165 Responses to “Welcome, new citizen!”

  1. annieangel said

    Hello. I haven’t been here in ages.

  2. mdh said

    why would you? I haven’t seen you in ages.

    But still, watch that clip.

  3. annieangel said

    That’s the guy from Drew Carey! They should show this clip everywhere, IMO. He nails it.

    You’ve seen me, you just don’t know you’ve seen me, I go to 3bulls sometimes, princessfillintheblank. Also, AG vouches for you, and I’d like to thank-you for what you did last night. No one has ever done that before. You rock.

  4. mdh said

    annie, I totally knew you’re princess tp already.

    Nobody does a lot of things, I do few, but i try to do them well. Problem lastnight was NT was a jerk, he just happened to run into a much bigger jerk.

    What can I say? I really REALLY like your Tony Clifton routine.

  5. annieangel said

    You probably wouldn’t believe me if I told you I have only the briefest idea of who that is, and only because I’m constantly compared to said person’s client, who I also don’t really know much more about than Taxi, and bits of stuff people have shown me. I like the mighty mouse thing and the Memphis trashing.

    I’ve seen some stuff, but not much. Also, I don’t really have a routine, more or a style. ๐Ÿ™‚

    It was all you last night though, I just watched and took notes.

  6. Kathleen said

    that was pretty great! thanks.

  7. mdh said

    annie, watch “Man on the Moon”. You’ll have a new hero.

  8. mdh said

    Kathleen, he’s the best late night host in the game since Tom Snyder retired. He’s almost as good as Carson.

    I hope they give him Late Night, he so deserves it.

  9. Lefty said

    Don’t forget Kilborn! Ferguson actually replaced Mr. Five Questions, not Snyder.

    Now I have to go dig and find out what you guys are talking about…

  10. mdh said

    Lefty, it should be easy for -you- to find. I was up late lastnight.

    But I did get in the last word.

  11. mdh said

    Lefty, hint. NT is NTodd.

  12. Lefty said

    Wow. That was entertaining (found it with the great gazoogle). It truly underscores why I stopped commenting at Atrios’ blog years ago. A circle jerk clique, don’t step on their toes. Self righteous asses.

    Now look at the monkey!

  13. Lefty said

    Oh this one is so much better.

  14. mdh said

    Yeah, it was kinda awesome. I was like a moth at a light-bulb fest. It was like talking to myself when I was first on the internet. I had my moments back then, every bit as much as them… but yeah, meaybe not to that degree.

    Really glad you liked it.

  15. annieangel said

    Jesus is the only hero I need.

    I’d like to know why Atrios banned me but not you. ๐Ÿ™‚

  16. mdh said

    did he really?

    Well, I do actually have some cred for not simply stirring the shitpot for a giggle.

    I didn’t know he banned people at all.

  17. annieangel said

    Banned by webmaster. Your comments will not be added.

    He bans me now and then. He doens’t like me very much. I can however still read there, and I really like being called a liar. It makes me super hot. And if someone told you something about me, you better tell me! No secrets! I didn’t realise I was stirring anything for giggles, I was just there last night. But the first time I went there his whole board crashed because of the insanity. He forgives me now and then but mostly he just bans me if he sees me.

    Also, call me a troll one more time and it’s over my knee you go. Don’t make me get my hairbrush.

  18. mdh said

    awwww. ok.

    I was just saying over there that from my discussions with AG you seem to be a Vaginamerican. There was some confusion – I’m not sure she meant to tell me anything at all. You gotta understand, with the way you are, just letters on a page – it’s hard to know anything as certain, true, fact, etc…- not that I’d change that.

  19. mdh said

    Which is to say, it’s hard to assume you’re doing anything in good faith, except the obvious, which you do faithfully.

  20. annieangel said

    Yes, the half naked pictures of me all over my blog can be confusing. They all know I’m a woman, sugar. Avedon has even linked my boobshot on her blog. It’s just what they do there, to them it’s funny as hell to use trannie or homosexual jabs as an insult, to demean women by stating that any woman with a strong personality is a man, and not even a straight man of course because I mean, teh gay is just so icky and all from a progressive viewpoint that it’s the best way to debate opposing arguments.

    And you are in need of that mirror you were on about last night, just take a glimpse, in good faith. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    (by the way “discussions” means more than one. you are so into me)

  21. annieangel said

    Also, Annie rhymes with trannie, and they aren’t very creative.

  22. mdh said

    You mean this gem of reflection:

    “Which is to say, itโ€™s hard to assume youโ€™re doing anything in good faith, except the obvious, which you do faithfully.”

  23. annieangel said

    Nothing I do is obvious, that’s a trap, don’t step in it. Don’t try to put me in a box, I won’t fit. Neither will you. Would you want to?

  24. mdh said

    As I said, not that I’d change that. not at all.

    But boxes are just so fucking comfortable.

  25. mdh said

    ….for about 5 minutes. I got no attention span. But I also don’t have traps, I mean other than the one you’re already in. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  26. mdh said

    There is a difference though. You seem to say 66% of what you mean, and leave the rest. I try to say 100% of what I mean, but with 66% accuracy. I’m never hiding a thing.

  27. annieangel said

    I jumped right in your boat, you didn’t even need bait. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I think I should have been clearer, nothing I do is obvious because I’m not some brilliant whatever it is people think I am. I’m just me. Well, I am brilliant but that’s beside the point.

    When you stereotype people, that’s the trap. You trap yourself into wearing blinders, that’s what I meant.

    I don’t think boxes are comfortable. No room to stretch out, take in the scenery.

  28. annieangel said

    What am I hiding? I’m probably the most outspoken person you’ll meet. If I leave something unsaid, well then I mean to unsay it. That’s just as good as saying it for those who can hear me. For those who can’t well I wasn’t talking to them anyway.

  29. mdh said

    Iโ€™m just me. Well, I am brilliant but thatโ€™s beside the point.

    yeah, you sort of are.

    But! sometimes you’re a brilliant pottymouth you, and sometimes you’re a brilliant gonna wash your mouth out with soap for being so potty mouthed you. It’s hard to figure the balances you keep between the righteousness and the wrongousness. It doesn’t always come across as consistent.

    Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy every second of it.

  30. mdh said

    Further, I think the problem here is that no matter what you do, ‘annieangel’ the internet personality, from where I stand, does live in a box. A box with a keyboard.

    AG is one of the rare few I’ve gone outside the box for.

  31. annieangel said


    I am control and the uncontrollable.
    I am the union and the dissolution.
    I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.
    I am the one below,
    and they come up to me.
    I am the judgment and the acquittal.
    I, I am sinless,
    and the root of sin derives from me.
    I am lust in outward appearance,
    and interior self-control exists within me.
    I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone
    and the speech which cannot be grasped.
    I am a mute who does not speak,
    and great is my multitude of words.
    Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
    I am she who cries out,
    and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.

  32. annieangel said

    Would you go outside the box for me?

  33. mdh said

    That was so the right answer.

  34. mdh said

    I approach it from a more Kierkegaardian traditon.

  35. annieangel said

    You hate the Danish State Church?

  36. mdh said

    I hate whenever the ceremony becomes more important than the individual.

  37. mdh said


    Capital N Nothing.

    without it none of this would be possible.

  38. annieangel said

    Can you expand on that? What do you mean by “Nothing”, “this”, “be” and “possible.”

  39. mdh said

    Without Nothing, no part of all creation could tickle my fancy by comparison.

    Were you looking for something more concrete, less zen?

  40. annieangel said

    Effective void is the nature of the devil.


  41. mdh said

    I don’t believe in devils, gods, ‘natures’, or divinity either.

    I believe this is.

    But I do, strangely, believe Jesus for the most part. That guy was really onto something.

  42. annieangel said

    Before this was, Jesus is.

  43. mdh said

    you lost me with that one. Can you tell me what the meaning of “is” is (and I do mean without just saying “Jesus” to be clever (although it would be a clever answer))

  44. annieangel said

    Is is a form of the verb ‘be.’ Don’t go all E-prime on my ass.

    You never explained what you meant by “be.”

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

  45. mdh said

    e prime, wow, I haven’t thought of that in a long long while. I write active voice too much, but for my work the clarity is key.

    I used to have an “I am” bumpersticker on my car. It was the only truth I knew at one time, and the only one I rely on without fail.

    I think Jesus and I meant the same thing by it, but everyone who ever mentioned it to me approvingly was difficult to stand within earshot of. I took it off, for myself and to save my ears.

    To “be” is the thing illuminated by Nothing, sorta like what Sartre said, but not so wordy. Probably closer to the Bard, really.

    So how about you? What floats your boat? What blows your hair back?

  46. annieangel said

    What do you mean by it? Did you know Jesus said it when you put it on your car?

  47. mdh said

    “Did you know Jesus said it when you put it on your car?”

    No, I knew only that I said it. Then I put the gun away, never to pick it up for that reason ever again

  48. annieangel said

    You didn’t know Jesus said it until just now, did you?

  49. annieangel said

    Have you read the Seven Sermons to the Dead? I don’t think you have, go for it.

  50. mdh said

    You didnโ€™t know Jesus said it until just now, did you?

    I knew before today. I learned just before I took the sticker off that I was being confused with a serious Christian.

    You have any idea how much fun it is to explain to people that you really like Jesus but don’t believe in his divinity? Heads pop. Then they find out I’m a Universalist and just walk away confused.

  51. mdh said

    and no, i haven’t. I may just. Is it long?

    Have you read Kierkegaards Either/Or?

    It’s long.

  52. annieangel said


    It’s not long. Skim it for what you like. It’s by Jung.

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on the I AM. Just a bit confusing as to why you were lost on the Jesus is. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I haven’t read Kierkegaard.

    I don’t think they are confused so much as saddened by the fact that you are going to Hell and yet are so close to Heaven.

  53. mdh said

    “I havenโ€™t read Kierkegaard.”

    He was a devout Christian. Truly. Went to school to become a priest, and turned out to be a philosopher. He’s the existentialist that all the other existentialists complain about because he usually brings it back to god – and the beret crowd loves to be all smarmy about how dumb believing in god is. I don’t happen to believe, but I do get it.

    “Just a bit confusing as to why you were lost on the Jesus is.”

    Because I don’t ascribe to the view that he still ‘is’, as such. I understand it intellectually, but as far as I can tell he is quite dead in every way that each other person who ever died is dead. Memory of him is one thing, but it isn’t the same as his being when he spoke.

    Speaking from the viewpoint of this moment in time, I say he ‘was’. I also say I am, but not for him. for me. Maybe for the same reasons?

    So it was hard for me to jump to automatically understanding what your shift in tenses meant. You didn’t offer much context, and he never said “I is”. Had he i might have copped quicker.

    So, in short, I worship nothing. No person, place, or idea. But it is Nothing that I love. (in a very 1 over Nothing sort of way, if that helps clarify my point any).

    I also rather enjoy going on about myself. Rare is the receptive audience.

  54. mdh said

    See, Jung is someone I have never read.

  55. mdh said

    But in two minutes I’ll tell you that I’m not finishing that. Excuse me for treating Jung like a troll here.

    1st sermon –
    “Ye must not forget that the pleroma hath no qualities”

    2nd sermon –
    “God is quality of the pleroma”

    This is exactly why I reject religion and the รผber-religious. Too many fucking circles, and you can make it a lot simpler and less time consuming than it is if that is the whole point.

    When I was 7 I asked someone at my church why stuff in the bible stopped adding up sometime between Genesis 3:25 and Genesis 4:17.

    Nobody to this day has made sense of it to me how it can be all be taken so literally, yet totally not add up in any sensible way. Talk about a work of committee.

    I’ve read about 2/3rds of the bible, and that does not make much sense. The relevant parts take up about a page total, everything else appears quite false and, to borrow a word, more than a bit idolatrous.

    I firmly believe the demotivator about meetings: None of us is as dumb as all of us.

  56. Anonymous said

    If you had read further, it would have been explained. ๐Ÿ™‚ No circles, just opposites and sucking voids and the importance of distinguishing. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    My context was(is) just fine. I can’t say Jesus AM. That is not grammatically correct. Cutiepie.

    Try thinking of Jesus as God. That will help with the I AM. The begining and the end.

    You’re struggling with the OT because you are trying to fight against God. GOOD! You are like that sheep that Jesus loved more than all the rest. Read the NT, get a red letter bible and read the red letters only.


    Or just read that. Maybe you can find fault with it, if you can I’d like to know.

    I like learning about other people. I’m a very receptive audience. Still a bit lost on the Nothing. I keep thinking in my head, “they look like good strong hands.” ๐Ÿ˜‰

  57. mdh said

    “Try thinking of Jesus as God.”

    Everytime I’ve ever tried that I run into my belief that Jesus existed, and was a man. A very very cool man.

    If it helps, I don’t believe in human nature either. Maybe this helps?

  58. mdh said

    And they are good strong calloused hands.

  59. mdh said

    No circles, just opposites and sucking voids and the importance of distinguishing.

    The importance of distinguishing is aided by not making contradictory statements left and right.

    e.g. the Genesis stuff. Adam and Eve -> cain and abel. Sure. Then C&A take wives. where did the wives come from? and I’m supposed to take that weird nonsesne literally or other christians refuse to see I live the right way, just because I won’t repeat after them? Truly, Jesus, save me from your followers. Half of them are brain dead zombies who worship the church and the connections it provides more than the teachings.

    But clearly annie, you’re no zombie.

  60. annieangel said

    I can smell your brain from here!

    Can you prove Jesus existed?

    Great video. ๐Ÿ™‚

  61. annieangel said

    (i like good strong calloused hands, give me teh shivers)

  62. mdh said

    What you can smell is the cobwebs, I haven’t haggled this stuff out in at least a decade.

    “Can you prove Jesus existed?”

    Aw, well, umm…. uh…. I suppose if he never existed then we would need to have invented him, or someone like him (as other did, elsewhere in the world).

    I think Nietzsche covered that ground, though I didn’t agree with him. I can take on faith (in my fellow man) that Jesus existed. I also take on faith that Caligula, Atilla the Hun, and Ghandi existed – though I never met them personally.

    What exactly he said, however, is not so clear. Translations by self-interested parties, the destruction of parts of his teachings that threatened past power structures, factionalization of brothers over trivialities. None lend much credence to the notion that following Jesus has paid off in the long run.

    Noting him, admiring him, listening – sure. Following him and prostrating yourself, not so much.

  63. annieangel said

    Can you link me to proof that Jesus existed please? Evidence?

    We can talk about what He said after you can show me some proof He was around to say it.

  64. annieangel said

    The long run is a long, long, long, time. Eternity.

  65. mdh said

    Can you link me to proof that Jesus existed please? Evidence?

    you first. Prove Atilla the Hun existed.

    The long run is a long, long, long, time. Eternity.

    The only thing being afraid does is give someone else a lever to use on you.

    If god does exist, then this is hell.

  66. annieangel said

    Afraid? Of Eternity with God? Hell is eternity without God.

    You base your belief in the existence of Jesus on faith.

  67. Lefty said

    Sorry to break the perfect 69 (with the 70th comment):

    As I was mentioning to my counselor earlier today (yes, I’m in therapy — it’s good), I have confirmed that I have fooled each and every one of my senses. Therefore I can never know the truth.

    Expanding on that, although I can’t know truth, I can judge consistency, inasmuch as I can correctly remember what the experience was like the last time. That which my unreliable mind deems most consistent tends to also be what it deems most close to being true. But as Sam Lowry never found out when the big heads popped in front of the camera at the end of Brazil, it’s rather hard to know if it really all was just in your head.

    History, as fact, is only as reliable as the conveyance of the information into your sensorium. At each point in the chain, the information has passed through someone else’s unreliable senses. Stories of acts in the past were told as rhyming poems to allow for children to memorize them as their parents told them. We’ve invented technology to improve the reliability of the transmission; shapes carved into wax and rocks greatly increased the lifetime of the information. Technology improved slowly at first and then more rapidly through ink and papyrus through the movable type press and finally to cameras. But just as you can photoshop Sarah Palin’s head onto a bikini model’s body, you could always chip away at the rock carving or melt the wax.

    Jesus probably existed, because a whole hell of a lot of people assert that he did. Some of them believe he’s God. His story was probably told by his friends to other people, and they told two friends, and so on and so on and so on. Later, the story was written down in one language, then translated into another language, and then even others, before finally making it to the language I happen to speak. At each point in the chain I doubt slightly more the reliability of the story, even as I doubt the explanation that the story even got here this way in the first place. I mean, it could have been that the Lunatics planted the story of Jesus so that maybe I would overthrow the One Happy World government instead of trying to find out where the little green man will be next.

    At least Gandhi was captured on film. And before they invented Photoshop too. But then again, ever seen CeauลŸescu’s hunting movies?

  68. mdh said

    You base your belief in the existence of Jesus on faith.

    And my belief in Atilla the Hun too. (And my belief in my recollection of seeing films of Ghandi for that matter). Let’s not debate the technicalities of knowledge itself. Too pedantic.

    But between A the H and Jesus, I think I know which one I’d have over for coffee.

    As for AG. She came to my house. We had coffee. We tawlked. I’m not making her look bad, you’re namedropping.

  69. mdh said

    “too pedantic”

    I said, before reading Lefty’s comment, which was NOT too pedantic, but rather a good summary of what I didn’t want to get any further into.

    Bravo left hand!

  70. mdh said

    Afraid? Of Eternity with God? Hell is eternity without God.

    Afraid of eternity -without- god.

    And I’m not.

    If god exists I can’t believe he couldn’t do better by us unless he was punishing us.

    I’d call it hell. Fortunately, as god is about as relevant to me as Atilla the Hun, I don’t call it either.

    As Sartre said. Hell is… other people.

  71. mdh said

    Whatever. I’ll accept your apology for the namestealing thing.
    annieangel | 09.18.08 – 12:33 am | #

    AG never told me I could trust you. That’s what you’re missing.
    mdhatter | Homepage | 09.18.08 – 12:43 am | #

  72. mdh said

    Just that you were hot, good people and to be kind to you. And I was.

    Which is three things more than she told me about you.

    See better where I’m coming from now?
    mdhatter | Homepage | 09.18.08 – 12:59 am | #

  73. mdh said

    Ya gotta understand. I’ve met exactly 4 people from online in real life, over 16 years. I’m due, you seem promising.

    But until the rubicon is crossed, doubt remains.

  74. annieangel said

    There is more proof of those people existing then there is of Jesus. His contemporaries don’t mention him. Strange?

    It’s two things. Hot, good people. Two things. I’m namedropping….hmmmm…what name makes people go OH BOY at Atrios more, AG or annieangel?? Hmmm??

    You are so getting a spanking if we ever do meet.

  75. mdh said

    well, I am sorry if I sullied your name.

    His contemporaries donโ€™t mention him.

    You’ve MET his contemporaries? Did you have coffee? Did you tawlk?

    Annie – i’m a chemist.

    And suddenly I’m a chemist with houseguests. Gotta go. See ya tomorrow.

    No hard feelings. Glad to be talking with you, truly.

  76. annieangel said

    You’re a chemist. Ok. A chemist who can’t count. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You didn’t sully my name you hurt my feelings. I don’t think you understand that.

    Later gator.

  77. annieangel said

    As far as God not doing better by us, maybe we should be doing better by ourselves.

    God gave us life, isn’t that enough? He gave us everything we need, and yet we want more. But we don’t want to do it ourselves, we expect God to step in.

    We have free will. I’d love the Kingdom of God to be here on earth, but until it is, we have free will and it’s up to each of us to build that Kingdom, within and without.

    It’s our choice to do it or not.

  78. mdh said

    My sudden houseguests (Guy and friend leaving local bar and needing to sleep rather than drive) are asleep now.

    So, I am also sorry then, that I hurt your feelings. I can see what I did there. After my kerfluffle over there the other day maybe I should know better.

    That said, it’s never struck me that you aim to be a valued member of that particular community. It has long been my belief that you go there to be disruptive, for your own reasons, else you’d leave before you evoke the threats. I know you like to get a rise out of folks, as do I in the right circumstances. I don’t get much from it anymore, I sorta mastered that realm.

    Initially I meant to expand on my Chemist comment and say that my world is built of logical constructs. Knowledge from knowledge, starting with the only base, that I am.

    As with lefty I can fool myself, my senses might lie, but I’m real careful not to. Still manage to. Just because I want something to be true has never once made it so, and usually what I want most to be true is far from true.

    As I said earlier. You are in a box. A box with a keyboard. That’s my perspective. I try to see yours and I still have several bifurcated possibilities (probability fields?) of who you are and what you’re doing.

    I prefer to look people in the eye and have a handshake to establish good faith. That means more than all the contracts and promises imaginable. That act nails it down to one possibility. Few are the times that method has failed me.

    But those fails are epic in scale when people have gamed me, and they have. I’ve vouched for people I thought I knew very well who did atrocious things. Lefty will also attest to that. Atrociousness isn’t what I worry about most times, but it never ceases to amaze me that some people really get off on making fools of others. I’m quite a big enough fool without anyone proving it to me.

    But I do find it all equaly fascinating. One over Nothing, literally and mathematically. I wear my heart on my sleeve, why bother doing it any other way?

    As such I don’t make time for half-assed people. Honest or not, I know you’re not half-assed, and I know you’re interesting. But nothing else is certain. Nothing else has been established.

    Don’t make me regret apologizing. I do it rarely.

  79. annieangel said

    Atrocity is my wine. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    You shouldn’t regret apologizing when you are in the wrong. And you shouldn’t use apologies or respect as threats.

    Why do you think I’m DOING anythng? What are you doing? What are your crimes?? lol

    Why should I trust you? Why should I make time for you? What makes you think I’m not just me and people react to that in amazing ways?

  80. annieangel said

    And I accept your apology.

  81. mdh said

    It’s the reaction that you draw that fascinates me, in a very You over Them sort of way.

    I mean, just look at the reaction you’ve got from me.

  82. mdh said

    a kangaroo for you

    Same one as in the other thread above.

    That is you sometimes. It makes me blow milk out my nose.

  83. annieangel said

    I am the cult of personality.

  84. annieangel said


    That was funny! I’ll totally admit that is me at IKEA. ๐Ÿ™‚ But I’d never run away from a golfer.

  85. mdh said

    I’ve never stepped foot in IKEA. I like the catalog, but my self-control is insufficient.

    Plus, I don’t buy new things. My ethic says I have to re-use whenever possible. Besides, they really don’t make things like they used to.

    They being we.

  86. mdh said

    Tell me if this makes any sense. My view of organized religion is best summed up by Jethro Tull.

    By the same token, every time I write the word ‘religion’ I have to spell check it. It’s one of those few words I can never learn to spell properly.

  87. annieangel said

    I’d live at IKEA if they would let me. I buy some stuff second hand, but I like new stuff. I bought 5 pairs of new jeans for a dollar yesterday. 350 bucks worth. For a dollar. I’m little and sneaky, I went under the crowd and stood inside the rack. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Who said anything about organized religion?

    I am the worst speller ever, as long as it’s understandable who cares?

    Also, I’ll be drunk for the next week or two off and on, then you can see me spell!

  88. annieangel said

    Hmmm, that sounds bad. I have many funtions to attend over the next week or so, which will involve me drinking wine, which gets me drunk and then I come home and post onlne and laugh a lot.

  89. mdh said

    I’d hardly worry about it. I tend not to drink’n’blog, though I certainly have. Think the kangaroo had been drinking?

    As for organized religion – i was mentioning it, but only in passing because I was listening to Jethro Tull.

    Re: IKEA, this is for you

    Hope you like the jeans.

  90. annieangel said

    !! I’ve always wanted to go to Norway! They should do that all the time, I think.

    I love the jeans. I only need to hem 4 pair. About a foot.

    I dunno if the kangaroo had been drinking, funny stuff though. That vid reminded me of just for laughs, gags. That show is very funny.

    Ok, I’m listening to Jethro Tull now. According to youtube Anderson’s a salmon farmer now.

  91. mdh said

    He is a salmon farmer. Unlike nearly every other rock’n’roller he spent a lot of his money on streams and canneries rather than drugs and bling. If you’ve eaten Scottish salmon, there’s a fair chance you got it from him.

    I used to work with salmon, but mine were in California.

  92. mdh said

    but just watch that guy play.

    The rest of the band from the 70’s was phenomenal.

  93. annieangel said

    I have a thing for Will Ferrel. You should know that. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I saw Jethro Tull play years ago. Great show. I’ve never worked with fish, but I used to feed the catfish and the nutria rats in the lake bread from the 29 cent bread store. That should count because they would swarm for it and people ended up eating them I guess.

  94. mdh said

    Where did you see them? I’ve seen them 4 times now, but I’ve seen King Missile, Stereolab, and Phish* more than that.

    * – back in the early days, when the deadheads were still busy following the dead.

  95. annieangel said

    Darien Lake. Procol Harem opened so I rode the coaster till they were done. Then a girl sat on my blanket and said do you have papers? Turned out I did.

    Concert talk is depressing me, I didn’t get tickets for ACDC. Didn’t even get through.

  96. mdh said

    Procol Harem! I can’t say I blame you for skipping them. A huge ‘meh’ for PH. They’ve always been solo when I saw them. Tanglewood was a great venue for them.

    So annie, tell me something about you. Throw me a few adjectives. I’ve gone on and on about me, care to share anything with me and the world*?

    * – lefty and AG, actually, are the only other people reading as far as I can tell.

  97. annieangel said

    I’ve told you lots. I like Jesus, IKEA, nutria rats and liquidation sales. And Will Ferrell.

    Why does a chemist have calloused hands?

  98. mdh said

    A chemist has calloused hands (well, less than usual lately) because not all chemists work in labs. I sure don’t work in a lab (nor am I working just now, thus, fewer callouses).

    But do tell me more.

  99. annieangel said

    What work do you do work when you are working that gives you calloused hands?

    Tell you more? Can you elaborate on that?

  100. annieangel said

    Ugh. What work do you do when you are working…it should read.

  101. mdh said

    Heh, I’m still up. I guess the coffee at 7 was a bad idea.

    What work do I do? You first. And I say that only because I enjoy hearing other people talk about themselves at least as much as I like talking about myself. I’ll draw you out yet.

  102. annieangel said

    Hey if you don’t want to tell me, fine. You don’t need to. I’ll just use my imagination.

    Nerf herder. That’s what you are. ๐Ÿ™‚

  103. annieangel said

    I mean you brought up your callouses and you brought up that you’re a chemist, don’t be such a tease.

  104. annieangel said

    Ah, good old google.

    Chemist/geologist who cleans up hazardous waste. And you were all over my AG where I found this info, hands off, she’s mine.

  105. mdh said

    Well yeah/ I’m just trying to entice you into a second full paragraph. I can’t carry the whole conversation.


  106. mdh said

    and for the record, I’m a chemist/geologist who FINDS hazardous waste spills through a combination of historical research, hole digging, and translating of chemistry into english – for bankers and insurance companies.

    But I sure used to clean it up. I’ve worn so many hats it’s a wonder I still have a head of wavy, lustrous hair.

    See how much I volunteer about me? Now you.

  107. mdh said

    You can have AG. She’s almost as bad as you are about actually saying anything real about herself… and I’ve actually met ~her~. Hi AG!!! [waves]

    What the heck is so compelling about maintaining the aura of mystery?

    Oh, and I found a very compelling reason to go to Mexico.

  108. mdh said

    Another question, are you Canadian? (I admit, I finally looked at your IP address).

    If so, I think that’s awesome. I’m accused of having a Canadian accent about once a month.

  109. mdh said

    that’s awesome. I have two gravatars.

    I hate cookies.

  110. mdh said

    also, why ‘annieangel’?

  111. annieangel said

    Then there’s this:

    and this:

    and this:

    I don’t need you to say I can have AG. You are not the giver awayer of her. You have two gravatars and I’m telling Todd. You’re being sneaky aren’t you??? I’m in Canada, as your skillz have demonstrated. And it’s annieangel cuz it’s annieangel.

    Why are you so interested in me telling private info on the net? It’s not going to happen, I’m not stoopid and all that. There are lots of freaks out there who’d really like to hurt me.

  112. annieangel said

    Hey, my comment is in moderation. Too many links I bet.

  113. mdh said

    That bit was more for AG, I guess I’m clumsily giving her a hard time for a non-email she sent me a while back. Not the one mentioned above. [hi AG!] But it does seem she’s quite busy, and I haven’t kept up with RoD too close lately.

    And I’m not trying to get you to do any of that. I’m a weird freakin’ guy, why would you? How do you see the world is more my point of inquiry. And the links do pretty well towards that end.

    And i pondered the gravatars, I have had blogs at wordpress and previously at blogspot, and used a google address for one and an yahoomail for the other. It only seems to come up when I comment at the poorman. I can see that raising a flag for NTodd i guess. I only prentend to know how the internet works. Maybe he has superpowers and can explain it to me.

    I know for sure one of my readers has those superpowers.

    This is 300 yards to the left of where I met my dog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSSYtIxgMqE

    This is just awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrt9VmF75kQ

    two for now.

  114. annieangel said

    Just teasing about the gravatars. I see nothing awesome about the second video. Nothing. I hate it. The first one is very nice though. I wonder how your dog ended up there?

    This is so much better than thundersnow. Ever seen fog snow? I have. It sucks. I could totally live without it.

  115. mdh said

    I’ve seen kinds of snow that defy words. I don’t ski or anything, but I sure do walk around a lot.

  116. annieangel said

    I like to cross-country ski sometimes, but I don’t downhill.

    I usually don’t mind snow until after Christmas. Then it gets old fast.

  117. mdh said

    Yeah, I can count on snow for about 5 months a year here. Mid nov to late March. i likey snow.

  118. annieangel said

    Pffft. We get snow in May sometimes.

    Is mold a big scary thing to clean up?

  119. mdh said

    It sure can be, but not usually. Inside or out?

  120. annieangel said

    Inside. Bathroom is very bad, kitchen has a couple dark spots on the walls. Bathroom needs to be gutted.

  121. Lefty said

    Mold causes my wife to freak out. Then again, so does my hanging out with friends (just kidding, we’re trying to work on that).

    We’ve spent $12,000 (that’s roughly $12,000 Canadian) on various remediation techniques.

    I’m here all week.

  122. annieangel said

    Holy! What cost so much? Did it work? The house is a wreck, it’s an old manor/farmhouse thing, no one will buy it but I might.

    Mold can kill, can’t it? I saw that on Extreme Home Makeover, dude died after cleaning up the basement.

    It kinda freaks me out, too. I won’t even think of buying a house that might kill me.

  123. mdh said

    As I was saying, mold can be bad. But it usually isn’t. The problem with “mold guys” is that they know that, but they only make money if you think it’s all dangerous. It is not all dangerous. Annie, you asked me more about mold than lefty did before he spent all that money (12K canadian! yikes!!).

    Mostly the dehumidifier does the work, once it’s dry you can find where the water gets in, fix that, and then wash the mold off (then let it dry again), then spray an anti-mold chemical (now THAT stuff can be nasty).

    So long as you stay familiar with your friend the dust mask – you should be fine. Gloves too if you treat the area afterward.

    Ever read or seen “Into the Wild?”. Stupid kid, but he had one thing right. People climbed still mountains before anyone invented hiking boots. What he got wrong was that they asked advice of people beforehand.

    So just do it.

  124. annieangel said

    I’m not going to wash it, it’s like puke level of gross. I’m going to gut it. IF I buy it. I’d gut the entire downstairs, needs all new wiring anyway, and there isn’t even a tub or a shower, but there is a ton of mold in the bathroom, looks like it goes right behind the walls it’s all along the baseboard and even growing on “stuff”, also looks as if someone gave a few swipes with some bleach in some spots but it’s coming right back.

    It’s brick, so I can gut it fairly far, but if it’s gotten into the floors (under what is prolly asbestos tile, lol, I sanded a bunch of that off with a floor sander once, now i ask advice first) it’s just not worth it.

    The upstairs has the funkiest wallpaper ever and it’s still in good condition, and I didn’t see any mold, but I didn’t search for it. I guess wallpaper can be cleaned.

    I’m betting on leaking pipes and bad cleaning habits as the cause of it all. But who knows.

  125. annieangel said

    Thanks for the advice, btw. ๐Ÿ™‚

  126. mdh said

    Sweating pipes are just as likely in a brick house.

    Sounds like a very promising place. Once you’ve decided it all comes out, the job is a lot easier to just get done.

    This thing might prove very useful to you. I’d never heard of those until a few weeks back, and I’ve never even used one, but now I don’t ever want to work without one. One of those things I’ve invented 100 times in my head.

    And if it’s an older house, rewiring is a good idea. Wiring is not a hobby, but it sure used to be.

  127. annieangel said

    Oh that is a very cool thing! I can think of a million uses for that! Gracias!

    It has to be rewired it’s only got 60 amp service and that’s no good.

    I always love the idea of redoing a house, but about halfway through I start questioning my sanity. I think I’d keep this place though, if I bought it. Big if. It’s so nice though, got a lot of land, and it just feels like it should be mine. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  128. mdh said

    That’s how I felt when I met my dog.

  129. annieangel said

    What kind of dog?

  130. mdh said

    As my nephew says – ‘a big black dog’. Heinz 57. Mostly setter?

  131. annieangel said

    I have two dogs, both rescues. One is a spoiled rotten some kind of collie, and the other is the biggest(too big to be allowed), sweetest, nicest looking some kind of shepherd.

    I was reading through this thread and I noticed at one point you say “other” Christians. Do you consider yourself a Christian?

  132. mdh said

    Of course I do, I’m a Universalist.

    I maybe don’t cop to the notion of divinity per se, nor resurrection, nor eternal life etc… And I’m incredibly liberal (I blame my early exposure to those filthy hippie Unitarians), but heart of hearts – I’m a Universalist. A cranky yankee. I go to a Universalist church, occasionally.

  133. mdh said

    Oh, and my dog is also a rescue. He was a little over a year when we met. He was 75 lbs then, now he’s 95 (105 when chubby).

    Just noticed my fish died sometime today. bummer. Not surprising. He was the last survivor from my mom’s tank that I took down last week. C’est la vie. Fish can be fickle fragile things. I don’t like to keep them.

    I grew up with a huge Shepherd. Like 130 lbs huge.

  134. annieangel said

    Sorry about your fish. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ I don’t like how Wal-mart keeps those fighting fish in those little cups, I always see dead ones.

    You “maybe” don’t cop to the notion? If you don’t then you don’t believe and you are condemnded. Read John book 3. What causes the maybe?

    It’s a good thing, don’t get me wrong, it’s good to question. But you’re missing something that is causing you to doubt, I wonder what that is?

  135. mdh said

    i doubt the the necessity of it.

  136. annieangel said

    Why do you consider yourself Christian? I’m curious.

    You doubt the necessity of what? Faith?

  137. mdh said

    Why would you question my assertion is more important.

    I doubt the neccessity of the bar you’re putting up for me to walk under.

  138. annieangel said

    Because I question why someone who is evidently not a Christian would consider himself one. I find it strange and interesting.

    I didn’t put up any bar, Jesus did. I’m just wondering why you don’t seem to respect that.

    Are you trolling me?

  139. mdh said

    what’s your evidence?

  140. annieangel said

    “I maybe donโ€™t cop to the notion of divinity per se, nor resurrection, nor eternal life etc”

    As evidence of both theories. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  141. mdh said

    and who are you to judge?

  142. annieangel said

    LOL. I’m a chemist because I say I am. Now give me a degree! I’m also a geologist cuz I like shiny things. Give me a degree!

    I think I should also get your job, because you proved to me that words have no meaning and we can just call ourselves anything we want and if other people don’t buy it, their judging assholes who we’ll scoff at.

  143. annieangel said

    They’re judging assholes. Is what it should read.

    Also, you must now call me President Annie. POTUS Annie, bitches!!!!!

  144. mdh said

    But what evidence are my words that I am not a Christian? It matters not what I say, rather what I do. And I’m not trolling you.

  145. annieangel said

    “I maybe donโ€™t cop to the notion of divinity per se, nor resurrection, nor eternal life etc”

    Um, those words.

    Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

  146. annieangel said

    Well, God can see your heart, for Him faith is enough, but through that faith you will do work. To do work without faith, you are doing it for man, not God.

  147. mdh said

    I am indeed doing it all for man, I have some faith in man. I also have expectations of failure from man. You have to try to understand this Annie, I do not believe in God, yet I am a Christian.

    I don’t expect you to understand. Very few do.

  148. annieangel said

    Based on what, mdh? I’d like to understand but you just keep making an assertion with nothing to back it up. How can I understand if you won’t explain?

    I’ve asked you more than once, why do you consider yourself Christian?

    What you do for man without faith in God won’t save you. And dont be cleavor and say you don’t want/need to be saved. ๐Ÿ˜›

  149. mdh said

    Instead I’ll be clever and say God doesn’t need clean drinking water. Man does. Animals do. That’s my works.

    And saved from what exactly? I’m a Universalist, look us up. We’re the ones who live good lives without all that wasteful fear.

    As for my assertion, you’re the one judging it. Even if you had given me 10% (towards understanding your worldview) of what I gave you (towards understanding mine) to work with I wouldn’t judge what you told me about your beliefs, you know, lest I be judged etc…

    Jesus was a great guy. His translators suck.

  150. annieangel said

    I’d give you 100% if you could actually put it into words, your own words.

    I’m questioning, not judging you. I’m asking why you consider yourself a Christian. You keep saying Universalist, I don’t need to look them up. Living a good life doesn’t make you a Christian. Not believing in God doesn’t make you a Christian. Denying Christ’s divinity, that He rose again and that through Him we are assured eternal life, doesn’t nake you a Christian.

    Why is it difficult to answer that question?

    Please tell me what the “translators” got wrong, what you know that they didn’t. You seem to be claiming an inside track here how Jesus was great but misunderstood. From whence cometh your gnosis?


  151. mdh said

    I’m denying divinity. There is no man better or more than any other. Has never been one.

    None of those words, and especially not my failure to parrot them, changes anything.

    “Living a good life doesnโ€™t make you a Christian. Not believing in God doesnโ€™t make you a Christian. Denying Christโ€™s divinity, that He rose again and that through Him we are assured eternal life, doesnโ€™t nake you a Christian.”

    It doesn’t NOT make me one either. Can you show me your lease on the truth so I might know I’m trespassing. Can you do better than anyone else ever has? I’m usually told that my view of Jesus makes peoples heads hurt.

    Should I call myself a “Jesusian”, and leave the Christ to those who created it / maintain it / use it to exclude? Those are the translators that suck. The ones who built their power structure around their translations.

    His translators: Tell me, how were there 6 schools of Chrisitan thought in the 600’s, and one of them was driven to destroy the others?

    Love your brother? or control the message?

    2000 years of common men using the words of an unusually wise man to their own ends have wrecked the teachings, contorted the believers, and enabled those who sew hatred between brothers.

    My gnosis comes from me. I’m not claiming to be a teacher, elder, or expert. I assume most Christians, including those who started you on the path, the experts, most of the clergy, etc… they claim their gnosis comes from somewhere else, somewhere higher.

    That higher place – it’s not there.

    It’s just the pedestal you put them on.

    They win when you buy it.

    Same as it ever was.

    (hey, I’ll be out of town a day or so)

  152. annieangel said

    Ok, enjoy your time out of town.

    You haven’t told me what has been mistranslated. What specifically? You talk of the control of the Church, but that is not God or His word, it’s the works of man.

    Let me ask you something, do you really think that you can take a tradition and change it right in front of the people who have passed it down? If there was anything they would have changed if they could have, meaning the Church fathers, it would have been what?

    Mary being the first to see the Risen Christ, Mary being the Apostle to the Apostles, that is something that still fucks them over, they make her into a whore, based on nothing, they do what they can but they cannot change that it was Mary who brought the news that He Is Risen.

    Why? Because people knew the story already.

    Think about that.

    And read John book 3. That should help a bit with where I’m coming from.

  153. annieangel said

    KJV, of course. ๐Ÿ™‚

  154. mdh said

    Yeah, they change Mary to their ends, but not Jesus?


    It’s all mistranslated.

    It’s a spirit, not words, not prostration, not tithing, not fear, and not war in his name.

    As for Church fathers, you tell me why the Anglican, Catholics, Baptists, and Eastern Orthodox love each other so.

    Can you tell me any one of them is less right, or is more right? There’s a lot of people who throw Jesus’ name around.

    When they do, I immediately try to figure out how much money they want from me, or whom they want dead, in his name.

    Churches make a bigger mockery out of Jesus than Pilate ever did.

    You need him to be more than a man for some reason. I don’t.

  155. Anonymous said

    They did NOT change Mary in the Bible, that is the point.

    Why do you care what Papists do? Are you a Papist? Tithing???? What are you talking about? Churches or God? Why do I care what the Churches do? Those are MEN. I put my trust in GOD. I don’t pray for the Kingdom of Man. I pray for the Kingdom of God.

    What do you like about Jesus? Without reading the Bible what could you KNOW about Jesus? NOTHING. What more do you need to KNOW Jesus? NOTHING. You haven’t read the NT. That is obvious because you can’t argue it, you can’t tell me what has been mistranslated and you can’t even discuss why you call your self Christian!

    John 3:16 baby!

    I want to know what is mistranslated, you say it’s all mistranslated, what all? What about the stuff the Church suppressed?? Is it mistranslated, all of it?

    What about the OT?

    And anyway I know you are a troll, that’s why you are banned at RoD.

  156. annieangel said

    Do you know what I mean by Church fathers? I really don’t know how educated you are in this.

  157. annieangel said

    I guess I might sound kind of harsh, I don’t mean to. Even if you are a troll, you’re a cute little troll.

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